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#1 Member Berry

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:29 AM - 0104491

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#2 TankKiller

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 08:53 AM - 0104492

1. I know so many slavs here. I work with a great number of them too.

2. I also know many refugees from Syria and Afghanistan. Been to parties with them via my best friend and housemate, both of whom help large numbers of such refugees. They've all been lovely people struggling in a country where they don't speak the language (50% of them speak English, at least, but the others are trying to learn French). These guys and girls have fled their beloved homes for fear of death. Let's not make light of their plights, eh?

 

Well done on reinforcing the point that so many Americans generally have no idea what's going on outside of their borders. ^^ You could leave the hatred and mistrust of the entire middle east to your most intelligent, beloved dear leader though, he's doing an excellent job of it.

 

Overall, 9/10, good flame post. ;)


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#3 Zygon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 01:34 AM - 0104493

Well you aren't american so you wouldn't understand our views like we wouldn't understand yours. Flame? Far from it. Freedom of speech is something im more familiar with. I do realize it isn't all of them who are the ones who wish us ill but when a good majority of them do unfortunately they all are labeled because of a few who have ruined it for them.


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#4 Haart

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 05:13 PM - 0104494

Several members of the xenophobic party here have been sentenced for similar statements. In the court their excuse is that it's a freedom of speech or that it was just a joke, but so far it hasn't helped them to win the case.

 

Would you Yanks be okay if I said that you are psychopaths just because your president is one?


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#5 Zygon

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 06:29 PM - 0104495

I think i speak for many americans here when I say that we could care less what outsiders think of our president because there is a good chance we feel the same way and so on. Haters ganna hate. Nothing more or less.


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#6 Kochers

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 07:55 PM - 0104496

On the OP: Merkel has put herself in somewhat of a bind given everything and her changed position. I certainly don't envy her, because it produces content like this.

In response to Tank: You know as well as I do that political cartoons like this one are much more about Merkel than about the people mentioned. I don't agree with the cartoons caricature, but I do understand what it's trying to convey and the origins of that concern. And I believe you would agree, there is something to be said about turning your back on your friends, so to speak (the Ukrainians) in favor of those who are almost entirely dissimilar to you when both are in need.

Zygon: I hope you realize you contradicted yourself. Those who wish harm on the United States are a majority, but then they are just a few? That does not make any sense.

Haart: While your claim would be inaccurate, that doesn't mean that we'd jail you for it. The answer to speech you disapprove of isn't censorship or jail sentences, it's more speech.


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#7 Aurelius

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:27 AM - 0104497

Well you aren't american so you wouldn't understand our views like we wouldn't understand yours. Flame? Far from it. Freedom of speech is something im more familiar with. I do realize it isn't all of them who are the ones who wish us ill but when a good majority of them do unfortunately they all are labeled because of a few who have ruined it for them.


Freedom of speech does not mean everyone's opinion should be respected. How much respect an opinion should be given is a function of its validity. If an opinion is wrong, either in fact or logic, it should be called out.
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#8 Aurelius

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:32 AM - 0104498

Haart: While your claim would be inaccurate, that doesn't mean that we'd jail you for it. The answer to speech you disapprove of isn't censorship or jail sentences, it's more speech.


I would have agreed previously that more speech would have cured the excesses of irresponsible free speech, but I am no longer convinced of that proposition. When a substantial proportion of your citizenry is unmoved by fact or logic, I fear that more speech is impotent as rational discussion is no longer the basis for public discourse.
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#9 Zygon

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:27 PM - 0104499

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#10 Member Berry

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:36 PM - 01044910

Oh wow, look at that, I created activity :D 


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#11 Member Berry

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:37 PM - 01044911

1. I know so many slavs here. I work with a great number of them too.

2. I also know many refugees from Syria and Afghanistan. Been to parties with them via my best friend and housemate, both of whom help large numbers of such refugees. They've all been lovely people struggling in a country where they don't speak the language (50% of them speak English, at least, but the others are trying to learn French). These guys and girls have fled their beloved homes for fear of death. Let's not make light of their plights, eh?

 

Well done on reinforcing the point that so many Americans generally have no idea what's going on outside of their borders. ^^ You could leave the hatred and mistrust of the entire middle east to your most intelligent, beloved dear leader though, he's doing an excellent job of it.

 

Overall, 9/10, good flame post. ;)

11/10 that you've taken it too seriously.  Learn to laugh :)

 

99% of the people may be good but whats the point if you aren't screening and checking for the 1% that are terrorists before they are able to enter into your borders.


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#12 Member Berry

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:40 PM - 01044912

Several members of the xenophobic party here have been sentenced for similar statements. In the court their excuse is that it's a freedom of speech or that it was just a joke, but so far it hasn't helped them to win the case.

 

Would you Yanks be okay if I said that you are psychopaths just because your president is one?

I have a thick skin, I could care less but I support your right to express yourself and your views however you'd want so long as they're peaceful. 

 

 

 

Haart: While your claim would be inaccurate, that doesn't mean that we'd jail you for it. The answer to speech you disapprove of isn't censorship or jail sentences, it's more speech.


I would have agreed previously that more speech would have cured the excesses of irresponsible free speech, but I am no longer convinced of that proposition. When a substantial proportion of your citizenry is unmoved by fact or logic, I fear that more speech is impotent as rational discussion is no longer the basis for public discourse.

You an expert on US citizenry now?  Not enough civil discussions are had from my experience, and those would solve most problems... but nah lets just put our heads in some sand and ignore any rationale discussions with either "side" on any topic.


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#13 Haart

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:34 PM - 01044913

I think i speak for many americans here when I say that we could care less what outsiders think of our president because there is a good chance we feel the same way and so on. Haters ganna hate. Nothing more or less.

 

You are insinuating that you think mr Trump is a perfectly sane person? Now that's the biggest denial I've encountered in a very long time. You don't need to be psychologist to tell that he isn't, but several of them have as well stated the same. I wonder what's next, denying that you have two hands?

 

You evaded the question. I didn't ask how you'd react to outsiders' opinion about the president, I asked how you'd feel if someone called you something you are not, and I used "psychopath" as an example.

 

 

 

Several members of the xenophobic party here have been sentenced for similar statements. In the court their excuse is that it's a freedom of speech or that it was just a joke, but so far it hasn't helped them to win the case.

 

Would you Yanks be okay if I said that you are psychopaths just because your president is one?

I have a thick skin, I could care less but I support your right to express yourself and your views however you'd want.

 

 

Okay, but that's just you and Zygon. The majority would not be so indulgent, no matter how you try to convince anyone it's the opposite.

 

 

Haart: While your claim would be inaccurate, that doesn't mean that we'd jail you for it. The answer to speech you disapprove of isn't censorship or jail sentences, it's more speech.

 

There are certain limitations to freedom of speech, and incitement to racial hatred is one of them. As a common person I would probably get away with it in my current location, but not if I as a politician speak or write something offensive in a public place. The people I mentioned were punished by a fine or a short prison sentence, depending on the seriousness of their crime. In the USA you would probably win such a case if you have enough money to pay a good lawyer - if it even gets that far - but in most European courts that wouldn't work. Legally right and morally right - two different things last time I checked.

 

 

 

1. I know so many slavs here. I work with a great number of them too.

2. I also know many refugees from Syria and Afghanistan. Been to parties with them via my best friend and housemate, both of whom help large numbers of such refugees. They've all been lovely people struggling in a country where they don't speak the language (50% of them speak English, at least, but the others are trying to learn French). These guys and girls have fled their beloved homes for fear of death. Let's not make light of their plights, eh?

 

Well done on reinforcing the point that so many Americans generally have no idea what's going on outside of their borders. ^^ You could leave the hatred and mistrust of the entire middle east to your most intelligent, beloved dear leader though, he's doing an excellent job of it.

 

Overall, 9/10, good flame post. ;)

11/10 that you've taken it too seriously.  Learn to laugh :)

 

99% of the people may be good but whats the point if you aren't screening and checking for the 1% that are terrorists before they are able to enter into your borders.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the people don't have a label on them saying if they are terrorists or not. Spotting terrorists is not like finding weed in the garden.


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#14 Member Berry

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 02:04 AM - 01044914

 

 

Several members of the xenophobic party here have been sentenced for similar statements. In the court their excuse is that it's a freedom of speech or that it was just a joke, but so far it hasn't helped them to win the case.

 

Would you Yanks be okay if I said that you are psychopaths just because your president is one?

I have a thick skin, I could care less but I support your right to express yourself and your views however you'd want.

 

 

Okay, but that's just you and Zygon. The majority would not be so indulgent, no matter how you try to convince anyone it's the opposite.

 

 

 

1. I know so many slavs here. I work with a great number of them too.

2. I also know many refugees from Syria and Afghanistan. Been to parties with them via my best friend and housemate, both of whom help large numbers of such refugees. They've all been lovely people struggling in a country where they don't speak the language (50% of them speak English, at least, but the others are trying to learn French). These guys and girls have fled their beloved homes for fear of death. Let's not make light of their plights, eh?

 

Well done on reinforcing the point that so many Americans generally have no idea what's going on outside of their borders. ^^ You could leave the hatred and mistrust of the entire middle east to your most intelligent, beloved dear leader though, he's doing an excellent job of it.

 

Overall, 9/10, good flame post. ;)

11/10 that you've taken it too seriously.  Learn to laugh :)

 

99% of the people may be good but whats the point if you aren't screening and checking for the 1% that are terrorists before they are able to enter into your borders.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the people don't have a label on them saying if they are terrorists or not. Spotting terrorists is not like finding weed in the garden.

 

 

I think you are confusing disagreement with the content of your statement and supporting your ability to make such a statement freely. 

 

 

You are right that spotting terrorists is not like finding weeds in a garden but I never implied it was that easy.  If measures like background checks/ interviews etc. were in place in Europe, it would of made it much more harder for the 1% or less than 1% who are terrorists to have made it to Europe, such measures may have even discouraged them from coming.  Obama's refugee program for Syria was far superior to the mess that Europe created, how many of the people have actually been resettled so far in Europe?  Its irresponsible to accept such a large group of people blindly and as a result you have the current situation.  I do find it hilarious that the countries who created this mess primarily want to shrug off the burden to others who want no part. 


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#15 Aurelius

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 06:44 AM - 01044915

 

 

Haart: While your claim would be inaccurate, that doesn't mean that we'd jail you for it. The answer to speech you disapprove of isn't censorship or jail sentences, it's more speech.


I would have agreed previously that more speech would have cured the excesses of irresponsible free speech, but I am no longer convinced of that proposition. When a substantial proportion of your citizenry is unmoved by fact or logic, I fear that more speech is impotent as rational discussion is no longer the basis for public discourse.

 

You an expert on US citizenry now?  Not enough civil discussions are had from my experience, and those would solve most problems... but nah lets just put our heads in some sand and ignore any rationale discussions with either "side" on any topic.

 


I never claimed that I was an expert in US citizenry, although I am a keen observer of US politics, as I am a keen observer of politics in all major democracies. I would note that the problem I alluded to above is not unique to America - one sees it occurring in Europe and, what is more concerning for me personally, in my own country.

As for your contention that civil discussions would solve most problem, I would agree that civility in discussions is important. Personal respect for people in discussions seems to me to be the appropriate starting attitude: people are less likely to be willing to engage with others and be persuaded if they feel insulted or demeaned.

However, to the extent that "civility" means respecting another person's opinions or according it equal weight because of the right to free speech, I disagree. If an opinion is wrong, then it must be declared as such. Such opinions ought be relegated to the dustbin for society to move on. To the extent that this causes discomfort to another person, it is unavoidable.

What particularly concerns me is the downright rejection of facts and evidence. When provided with evidence contrary to their beliefs, even overwhelming evidence, it seems to me that a growing proportion of many of the world's democracies refuse to be persuaded. In that context, you can have all the free (civil) speech you want, but it seems to me that it may not solve the fundamental problem - the non-engagement with facts and the analysis of evidence.


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#16 O00OO0

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 05:41 PM - 01044916

Once again, the USA confirms its position as the world's leading provider of entertainment. My only criticism is that I find many of the principal characters too far-fetched to be believable. Still, 10/10 for the storyline. A must-watch, preferably with a glass of something tasty in hand.


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#17 Zygon

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:39 AM - 01044917

[embed]http://i.imgur.com/ojswwP1.png[/embed]

 

Triggered.


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