Jump to content
Forums upgraded! Read more... ×
cn-nadc.net | North Atlantic Defense Coalition
Sign in to follow this  
The Shah

Gay Marriage

Recommended Posts

You think nature makes guys like other guys? Could you explain to me how that would work?

Nope. But I can tell you that there are very real differences in brain structure between homo and heterosexuals (and, as an aside, between transsexuals and non-transsexuals) that suggest things like homosexuality and transsexualism are, indeed, at least partially biologically based. Why that should be? We have no idea at the moment.

 

It's also interesting to note that homosexuality exists in animal populations as well; Central Park zoo, for example, has a pair of gay penguins that, IIRC, have managed to raise an apparently normal chick from an egg, and this paper indicates that, not only are 8% of rams gay, but that they too exhibit neurological differences between gay and straight individuals. Animals engage in 'bestiality' as well, in that they have intercourse with other animals that are not members of their own species. Evidence, therefore, suggests that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, not some sort of magic psychoses that is exclusive to humanity. Certainly, it smashes the 'sin against nature' argument to flinders, and kind of hurts the 'God doesn't want you to' argument as well. If the Big Guy is so against it, why did He make homosexual animals?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stand behind my words.

 

I am not ashamed that I insulted Kirk. I feel as though he needs some insulting.

 

And, I am certainly not ashamed of this:

 

 

 

 

While I respect religions beliefs and I don't hate people because they believe in God or whatever, I do NOT consider Bible or any other "holy" book a book from where you can draw moral guides and laws and such, and then try to force them on others. You can live by them, but you can't do ANYTHING about anyone else not doing the same.

As long as you are allowed to be yourself, you have no right to touch others. And no, you can't complain if a gay couple makes out in front of you (just an example that goes with the topic of the discussion). You can still be yourself even if something like that happens.

 

 

I apologize if any, like Kochers, who I have nothing against, got hurt because of something I say, but I will not stand by when someone practices discrimination and racism just because it reads on a BOOK, no matter how holy it is.

 

Actually Lail, I wasn't as much insulted personally as it was that I was trying to warn you away from saying that kind of thing. We don't need a repeat of last time...

 

 

Nope. But I can tell you that there are very real differences in brain structure between homo and heterosexuals (and, as an aside, between transsexuals and non-transsexuals) that suggest things like homosexuality and transsexualism are, indeed, at least partially biologically based. Why that should be? We have no idea at the moment.

 

It's also interesting to note that homosexuality exists in animal populations as well; Central Park zoo, for example, has a pair of gay penguins that, IIRC, have managed to raise an apparently normal chick from an egg, and this paper indicates that, not only are 8% of rams gay, but that they too exhibit neurological differences between gay and straight individuals. Animals engage in 'bestiality' as well, in that they have intercourse with other animals that are not members of their own species. Evidence, therefore, suggests that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, not some sort of magic psychoses that is exclusive to humanity. Certainly, it smashes the 'sin against nature' argument to flinders, and kind of hurts the 'God doesn't want you to' argument as well. If the Big Guy is so against it, why did He make homosexual animals?

 

Thats like asking why he made homosexual humans. He made humans and gave them the free will to have the ability to sin. However, with animals, they aren't sentient. Its like a little 4 year old that breaks something. Do you think he would have broken it on purpose if he really grasped the concept?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, you are assuming that God FROWNS upon Homosexuality. How sure are you on that? As someone said earlier, the Bible has been translated and re-translated at least 10-20 times over the past 1900 years. Some parts of it would be lost and God didn't come to your house last night to tell you that homosexuality is forbidden.

 

My point is, don't trust the Bible blindly, to the extent of ignoring everything else in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats like asking why he made homosexual humans. He made humans and gave them the free will to have the ability to sin. However, with animals, they aren't sentient. Its like a little 4 year old that breaks something. Do you think he would have broken it on purpose if he really grasped the concept?

Not according to every denominaiton, he didn't. Calvinists, for example, believe in predestination in that who is saved and not saved was defined before creation, and Lutherans believe that in spiritual matters, a person's fate is also pre-determined inasmuch as their actions cannot affect whether they're saved or not. In contrast, the Catholic, Orthodox and Arminian traditions all, IIRC, espouse the idea of free will rather than determinism.

 

This is why religion is a spectacularly bad choice when selecting something to base your legal system on. It's not consistent enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Admiral Kirk, where I'm from, the good guys tell the truth and protect those who can't protect themselves. So, in my book, that makes you a bad guy. You and your friends might have had an awesome time when you were a teenager dabbling in fascism and making some kids life a living hell, but the truth is that fascism is a losing game because there's always someone tougher than you willing to stand up for those in need. Some people even dedicate their lives to doing it.

 

I can accept people that don't like gay marriage based on religious grounds even though I disagree, and while I disagree with Kajdav about this issue, I respect him as an honest and decent gentleman. Not you, AK. I don't respect you at all. I've kept my mouth shut about you in the past, but I have zero tolerance for bullies.

 

"Bear in mind this sacred principle,

that though the will of the majority

is in all cases to prevail,

that will to be rightful must be reasonable;

that the minority possess their equal rights,

which equal law must protect,

and to violate would be oppression."

 

-Thomas Jefferson,

(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

First Inaugural Address, 4 March 1801

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But how can you claim to know what God believes? Because of a book? Now has it ever occurred to you that the Bible has been translated, transcribed and re-translated so many times that there may be very little of the original message left? You see how politicians act today. What do you think was stopping a king from saying to a Monk, "Hey Monk! I need to increase my kingdom's population. Can you throw something in there about no fornicating with men and how it is our duty to populate the world?"

I do agree with Michael. I think people nowadays are giving far too much importance to the Bible, the supposed message from God. Are you sure the Bible we have this very day contains the exact same messages that he gave Moses?

 

Again, you are assuming that God FROWNS upon Homosexuality. How sure are you on that? As someone said earlier, the Bible has been translated and re-translated at least 10-20 times over the past 1900 years. Some parts of it would be lost and God didn't come to your house last night to tell you that homosexuality is forbidden.

 

My point is, don't trust the Bible blindly, to the extent of ignoring everything else in the world.

 

You guys bring up a good point, that I do agree with; the bible, over hundreds of years, has been translated hundreds of times, and a result of that is tons of versions of the bible, each of which could be interpreted differently. I believe in three things that guide us: 1) The bible, portions of which were re-translated and fixed by God, through his prophet Joseph Smith. It still has errors in it, and has books missing still, but it is the most correct version of the bible. 2) The Book of Mormon, which was translated once into English by Joseph Smith (translated twice, if you are talking about a non-English version). This is the most correct book ever written, and was written specifically for us, the people of the latter-days. 3) Modern day revelation, whether through the prophet for the entire church, or personal revelation, which all of us can receive for ourselves (and only ourselves). By all of us, I mean everyone. If you pray with a true wanting for an answer, and faith that it will come, you can receive revelation from God for your own personal life.

 

It is through all three of these that I know that homosexuality is a sin, and "FROWNED" upon by God. The biggest sign for me is through the third option; The church fought against gay marriage in California through proposition 8, and the church acts as God says, through the prophet.

 

Kajy, don't you think this world has enough people? What was the last world census? Like 8 billion people? Did you ever think that maybe homosexuality is nature's way of trying to control the population? Nature keeps everything in check with predators and/or scarcity of food. Man has to worry about neither of those things. Is it really so hard to believe that homosexuality is just a natural segment of the population?

 

Michael, do you believe that murder is natural? That it is found in nature? I believe it is. Murder is in the heart of every natural man.

 

Michael, do you believe that murder is ok because it is found in nature? That, because it controls the population, that it is ok to do?

 

 

As long as you are allowed to be yourself, you have no right to touch others. And no, you can't complain if a gay couple makes out in front of you (just an example that goes with the topic of the discussion). You can still be yourself even if something like that happens.

 

You can't complain if a gay couple makes out in front of you, but you can complain if a straight couple makes out in front of you, is that it?

 

 

Wait, did am I getting this correctly? Our job is to love everyone, no matter how they act?

 

That statement contradicts your whole argument!

 

I personally don't want to get into the debate, except that I believe there is NOTHING wrong with being gay and that they should be allowed to marry.

 

That is all.

 

Cheerio.

 

It does not contradict my argument at all. I NEVER said that gays should be hated, that they should be scorned, or anything else that would mean not loving them. I believe that every homosexual person is homosexual because of things that have happened in their life (NOT biological) up to that point; Who am I to judge, or to hate them without knowing what those events were, or without knowing if, had I been through the same events, I would be gay at that point too. It's up to us to love, it's up to God to judge.

 

 

Nope. But I can tell you that there are very real differences in brain structure between homo and heterosexuals (and, as an aside, between transsexuals and non-transsexuals) that suggest things like homosexuality and transsexualism are, indeed, at least partially biologically based. Why that should be? We have no idea at the moment.

Has it ever occurred to you that, like most human brains, it is developed differently because they are homosexual, not the other way around? I'm no brains surgeon, but I'm pretty sure brains tend to change according to how you think, act, and what you do.

 

It's also interesting to note that homosexuality exists in animal populations as well; Central Park zoo, for example, has a pair of gay penguins that, IIRC, have managed to raise an apparently normal chick from an egg, and this paper indicates that, not only are 8% of rams gay, but that they too exhibit neurological differences between gay and straight individuals. Animals engage in 'bestiality' as well, in that they have intercourse with other animals that are not members of their own species. Evidence, therefore, suggests that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, not some sort of magic psychoses that is exclusive to humanity. Certainly, it smashes the 'sin against nature' argument to flinders, and kind of hurts the 'God doesn't want you to' argument as well. If the Big Guy is so against it, why did He make homosexual animals?

 

God made men who sin. I'm not going to say that animals sin, because they are not sentient; Like Kochers said, they are not accountable, because it's like a child breaking something on accident. But I am saying that animals will still make mistakes as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does not contradict my argument at all. I NEVER said that gays should be hated, that they should be scorned, or anything else that would mean not loving them. I believe that every homosexual person is homosexual because of things that have happened in their life (NOT biological) up to that point; Who am I to judge, or to hate them without knowing what those events were, or without knowing if, had I been through the same events, I would be gay at that point too. It's up to us to love, it's up to God to judge.

Okay then, then if you don't "hate" gay people, it must mean you love them as much as any other person on the planet, right? You cannot say that it is our duty to love people how they are, and how they act, and then come out and have a big rant on gay people. It totally contradicts your points because you cannot love somebody if you have a big rant about them!

 

Try and find a definition of marriage that says it is the union between a man and a woman, which is recognised by the United States of America. Guess what, you won't find one because the state would be in violation of the constitution. Why would it be against the constitution, you may ask. Well, that is because the constitution states that one has freedom of religion, and in some religions it is perfectly acceptable for gay people to marry. Hence, they cannot define marriage as the union between a man and a woman, because that would not grant people freedom of religion.

 

I honestly cannot see how you could have a problem with gay people... you're straight, they're gay. It's your choice to be straight, and their choice to be gay.

 

I'd just like to clear up that "gay-marriage" actually refers to both genders. The focus has been on homosexuals only, does that mean it is alright for to women to marry?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys bring up a good point, that I do agree with; the bible, over hundreds of years, has been translated hundreds of times, and a result of that is tons of versions of the bible, each of which could be interpreted differently. I believe in three things that guide us: 1) The bible, portions of which were re-translated and fixed by God, through his prophet Joseph Smith. It still has errors in it, and has books missing still, but it is the most correct version of the bible. 2) The Book of Mormon, which was translated once into English by Joseph Smith (translated twice, if you are talking about a non-English version). This is the most correct book ever written, and was written specifically for us, the people of the latter-days. 3) Modern day revelation, whether through the prophet for the entire church, or personal revelation, which all of us can receive for ourselves (and only ourselves). By all of us, I mean everyone. If you pray with a true wanting for an answer, and faith that it will come, you can receive revelation from God for your own personal life.

 

It is through all three of these that I know that homosexuality is a sin, and "FROWNED" upon by God. The biggest sign for me is through the third option; The church fought against gay marriage in California through proposition 8, and the church acts as God says, through the prophet.

 

Michael, do you believe that murder is natural? That it is found in nature? I believe it is. Murder is in the heart of every natural man.

 

Michael, do you believe that murder is ok because it is found in nature? That, because it controls the population, that it is ok to do?

 

 

You can't complain if a gay couple makes out in front of you, but you can complain if a straight couple makes out in front of you, is that it?

 

 

It does not contradict my argument at all. I NEVER said that gays should be hated, that they should be scorned, or anything else that would mean not loving them. I believe that every homosexual person is homosexual because of things that have happened in their life (NOT biological) up to that point; Who am I to judge, or to hate them without knowing what those events were, or without knowing if, had I been through the same events, I would be gay at that point too. It's up to us to love, it's up to God to judge.

 

 

Has it ever occurred to you that, like most human brains, it is developed differently because they are homosexual, not the other way around? I'm no brains surgeon, but I'm pretty sure brains tend to change according to how you think, act, and what you do.

 

God made men who sin. I'm not going to say that animals sin, because they are not sentient; Like Kochers said, they are not accountable, because it's like a child breaking something on accident. But I am saying that animals will still make mistakes as well.

 

DANG IT KAJDAV!!! And we were working so well with each other. Then you bring in our one difference and... all well. Not really the right thread to discuss that in...

 

Okay then, then if you don't "hate" gay people, it must mean you love them as much as any other person on the planet, right? You cannot say that it is our duty to love people how they are, and how they act, and then come out and have a big rant on gay people. It totally contradicts your points because you cannot love somebody if you have a big rant about them!

 

Try and find a definition of marriage that says it is the union between a man and a woman, which is recognised by the United States of America. Guess what, you won't find one because the state would be in violation of the constitution. Why would it be against the constitution, you may ask. Well, that is because the constitution states that one has freedom of religion, and in some religions it is perfectly acceptable for gay people to marry. Hence, they cannot define marriage as the union between a man and a woman, because that would not grant people freedom of religion.

 

I honestly cannot see how you could have a problem with gay people... you're straight, they're gay. It's your choice to be straight, and their choice to be gay.

 

I'd just like to clear up that "gay-marriage" actually refers to both genders. The focus has been on homosexuals only, does that mean it is alright for to women to marry?

 

I can answer the bold above with a simple saying. "Love the person, hate the sin." We hate that they believe that being gay is okay, but we'll still love them because they are just as much God's child as we are. Its not contradictory at all. We aren't ranting against the people themselves, just the sin that they think is okay.

 

Interesting idea claiming some religions approve of gay marriage.

 

Yes, gay marriage refers to both gay guys and lesbian gals. Gays are just the chosen word because of the greater difference between straight and gay guys then straight and lesbian gals. At least, I believe that is the case.

 

Also, would anyone be surprised if I said that I don't have a passion for the gay marriage debate? My passion is more youth-rights-students-rights-fixing-schools kinda area. Kajdav, on the other hand, obviously knows his stuff. So if I sound contradictory or make an error, sorry. This subject isn't my thing. However, if you'd like to debate the validity of mandatory school uniforms or boatloads of homework, I'll cream ya. ;) I mean, I got the statistics, research, everything. Thus the thread I started titled "Education".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erm, who's Joseph Smith?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Erm, who's Joseph Smith?

 

The Morman Profit, I mean Prophet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can answer the bold above with a simple saying. "Love the person, hate the sin." We hate that they believe that being gay is okay, but we'll still love them because they are just as much God's child as we are. Its not contradictory at all. We aren't ranting against the people themselves, just the sin that they think is okay.

 

Interesting idea claiming some religions approve of gay marriage.

 

Yes, gay marriage refers to both gay guys and lesbian gals. Gays are just the chosen word because of the greater difference between straight and gay guys then straight and lesbian gals. At least, I believe that is the case.

 

Also, would anyone be surprised if I said that I don't have a passion for the gay marriage debate? My passion is more youth-rights-students-rights-fixing-schools kinda area. Kajdav, on the other hand, obviously knows his stuff. So if I sound contradictory or make an error, sorry. This subject isn't my thing. However, if you'd like to debate the validity of mandatory school uniforms or boatloads of homework, I'll cream ya. ;) I mean, I got the statistics, research, everything. Thus the thread I started titled "Education".

 

1. The "sin" is purely based on what YOUR religion thinks. Again, some religions approve of gay marriage, and view heterosexual marriages exactly the same as gay marriage.

 

2. Are you saying that because you're a guy? I can tell you now that the majority of people I know think that lesbians are hot... that's biased. You should either fully be against gays (in any way, thus not treating gay men differently to gay women) or not against it at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has it ever occurred to you that, like most human brains, it is developed differently because they are homosexual, not the other way around? I'm no brains surgeon, but I'm pretty sure brains tend to change according to how you think, act, and what you do.

I, on the other hand, have done neuroscience as part of my biochemistry degree. You are correct in that some areas of the brain are heavily influenced by experiance (the striate cortex and extra-striate cortex, for example. If you cover a single eye of a young cat for the first ten or so months of it's life, it will be blind in that eye, because, with no action potentials being delivered, the synapses and neurons it's connected to will atrophy. If you do the same for an adult cat, though, it wont go blind). However, this is not true for all areas of the brain. Generally, it's areas related to either senses or intellect that show a high degree of plasticity. Areas like the brain stem and (importantly in this case, because this is where a great deal of the neurological difference lies) the hypothalamus do no exhibit a high degree of plasticity. They govern involuntary functions.

 

If the differences were in regions like cerebral cortex, then yes, you'd have a valid point. That is an area of the brain that is changed extensively by experiences, being that it's the seat of memory, cognition, planning and so on. The hypothalamus, however, is essentially hardwired. It's a link between the nervous system and the endocrine system, and plays a big role in homeostasis. It also shows marked sexual dimorphism, that is, it's different in males and females. The reason for that difference is that males and females respond differently to ovarian steroids, and produce different hormones in any case.

 

In this case, it's far, far more likely that it's brain structure influencing behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't complain if a gay couple makes out in front of you, but you can complain if a straight couple makes out in front of you, is that it?

It doesn't matter whether it's gay or straight. I want to clear what I said a bit, though - I meant that in public places. If you own the place (your house, for example) you can make the rules and if you have told people not to make out in your house, then they shouldn't.

 

But if it's in a public place and you complain, you're infringing their rights.

 

Michael, do you believe that murder is natural? That it is found in nature? I believe it is. Murder is in the heart of every natural man.

 

Michael, do you believe that murder is ok because it is found in nature? That, because it controls the population, that it is ok to do?

 

To murder someone means to end their life by force with no other intent than to do it. (Interesting observation - animals don't murder. Only humans do. Are we that great, after all? I think not)

 

I don't believe there's murder in the heart of every "natural man". There's violence and killing (impulsive, not well thought as murder), but not murder.

 

 

I understand the arguments of the people against gay marriage (have you noticed it's basically just religious people saying that it's against God's will? Where are the atheists against gay marriage?), but there's one problem - you base them on god, which is one of the most vaguest thing we know.

Anyone can claim that they received a message from god, and you can't prove them wrong. Nor can you really know what god (if she/he/them are there) thinks. God might actually like gay people, and we'd never know...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To murder someone means to end their life by force with no other intent than to do it. (Interesting observation - animals don't murder. Only humans do. Are we that great, after all? I think not)

 

I don't believe there's murder in the heart of every "natural man". There's violence and killing (impulsive, not well thought as murder), but not murder.

Just to point it out here, that animals do indeed kill without cause in the same way humans do.

 

I remember seeing something on National Geographic about leopards going on a killing frenzy with all the deer and going wayyy overboard killing an insane amount more than it could possibly eat.

 

On another topic I don't agree humans are somehow special and separated from the animal kingdom, Bonobos and Chimpanzees are EXTREMELY similar, featuring empathy (Which is something scientists thought before was only limited to humans), logic, language, etc. Read the book by Frans De Waals.

 

 

I understand the arguments of the people against gay marriage (have you noticed it's basically just religious people saying that it's against God's will? Where are the atheists against gay marriage?), but there's one problem - you base them on god, which is one of the most vaguest thing we know.

One thing I don't understand is why people are so against homosexuality or why even some think it is evil. There is a far cry between violent acts such as rape and homosexuality.

 

I remember a good analysis of that is that cultures thought homosexuality was a feminizing of a male, this is extremely appalling due to that most of western civilization is very patriarchal, if not in personality (No, if anyone assumes all gay men speak with a lisp and have great tastes in fashion like AK I'm going to slap them) then in the sexual acts they take part in.

 

But that is just cultural foundation, maybe subconsciously affecting our decisions today, but is nothing to base law or morality on. To be moral is to prevent violence, not what two consenting adults partake in their bedrooms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to point it out here, that animals do indeed kill without cause in the same way humans do.

 

I remember seeing something on National Geographic about leopards going on a killing frenzy with all the deer and going wayyy overboard killing an insane amount more than it could possibly eat.

 

On another topic I don't agree humans are somehow special and separated from the animal kingdom, Bonobos and Chimpanzees are EXTREMELY similar, featuring empathy (Which is something scientists thought before was only limited to humans), logic, language, etc. Read the book by Frans De Waals.

Murder IS killing with a cause. Killing frenzy is not the same thing as murder. Murder is something that's planned, something that's thought out, something that's NOT impulsive. Animals don't murder.

 

I agree, humans are not separated from animals. Actually, we are animals. And not nearly as "civilized" as we think we are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Murder IS killing with a cause. Killing frenzy is not the same thing as murder. Murder is something that's planned, something that's thought out, something that's NOT impulsive. Animals don't murder.

 

Oh in that case, Animals do that eve more often. Like Chimpanzees organizing an attack on rival groups. Also 2 lions teaming up to oust the head of a pride. Animals do murder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh in that case, Animals do that eve more often. Like Chimpanzees organizing an attack on rival groups. Also 2 lions teaming up to oust the head of a pride. Animals do murder.

 

Animals do not make moral decisions.

 

 

Though this is not the true topic of the discussion, is it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Animals do not make moral decisions.

 

 

Though this is not the true topic of the discussion, is it?

 

Morality requires empathy, which Chimpanzees and Bonobos and mostly likely many other species have. They make plenty of moral choices, such as, helping out an old member when clearly there is no tangible benefit from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Morality requires empathy, which Chimpanzees and Bonobos and mostly likely many other species have. They make plenty of moral choices, such as, helping out an old member when clearly there is no tangible benefit from it.

 

That's speculation there Freddie, sorry to say.

 

I think this is a good time to either stop arguing the subject, because it is not like anyone's opinions on gay marriage are being changed.

 

We know that the argument against gay marriage is pretty much based on religious views, and that the arguments in favour of gay marriage are based on the flaws of religion, the fact that people have their own say in the matter, and that it isn't your business.

 

The reason nobody's opinion on this matter will change is because it is such a controversial subject that you either have to be for it or against it, whereas with education, for example, you can adapt several views (eg, you don't like a uniform but you do like homework, whereas other people like both, or dislike both). I hope that makes sense.

 

Cheerio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay then, then if you don't "hate" gay people, it must mean you love them as much as any other person on the planet, right? You cannot say that it is our duty to love people how they are, and how they act, and then come out and have a big rant on gay people. It totally contradicts your points because you cannot love somebody if you have a big rant about them!

 

Show me one post where I have ranted about homosexuals. I have not bashed them. I have not shown any signs that I hate them. I know several gay people, and I do say I quite enjoy their company, I do not hate them.

 

 

DANG IT KAJDAV!!! And we were working so well with each other. Then you bring in our one difference and... all well. Not really the right thread to discuss that in...

It had to be brought up. But an interesting thing... You believe in modern-day revelation?

 

 

Also, would anyone be surprised if I said that I don't have a passion for the gay marriage debate? My passion is more youth-rights-students-rights-fixing-schools kinda area. Kajdav, on the other hand, obviously knows his stuff.[b/] So if I sound contradictory or make an error, sorry. This subject isn't my thing. However, if you'd like to debate the validity of mandatory school uniforms or boatloads of homework, I'll cream ya. ;) I mean, I got the statistics, research, everything. Thus the thread I started titled "Education".

 

Actually, I was just going to point out my general apathy towards any of the debates currently active on these new boards, compared to some of the ones on the old boards.

 

 

The Morman Profit, I mean Prophet.

 

If you have something to say, say it. Don't beat around the bush.

 

It doesn't matter whether it's gay or straight. I want to clear what I said a bit, though - I meant that in public places. If you own the place (your house, for example) you can make the rules and if you have told people not to make out in your house, then they shouldn't.

 

But if it's in a public place and you complain, you're infringing their rights.

I was pointing out the fact that you can complain about straight couples making out in public, but you said that you can't complain about gays making out in public... But it's probably an international difference, I suppose. Just another rant from me. :P

 

 

 

 

To murder someone means to end their life by force with no other intent than to do it. (Interesting observation - animals don't murder. Only humans do. Are we that great, after all? I think not)

Of course animals murder. I have studied comparatively little about animal nature, but I can tell you one circumstance that proves that murder is in nature. When a male lion enters a pride, he will kill the cubs of one or several female lions, so that they will be more willing to reproduce. That's planning right there.

 

I don't believe there's murder in the heart of every "natural man". There's violence and killing (impulsive, not well thought as murder), but not murder.

I suppose it depends on how you define murder. What I meant, really, was killing. The way you describe murder is a form of killing; planned killing.

 

 

I understand the arguments of the people against gay marriage (have you noticed it's basically just religious people saying that it's against God's will? Where are the atheists against gay marriage?), but there's one problem - you base them on god, which is one of the most vaguest thing we know.

Anyone can claim that they received a message from god, and you can't prove them wrong. Nor can you really know what god (if she/he/them are there) thinks. God might actually like gay people, and we'd never know...

 

God loves gay people. God loves all people, even the murderers. But I'll just tell you that I know God considers homosexuality a sin. I have explained how I know this earlier, and if you want me to I can quote it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Show me one post where I have ranted about homosexuals. I have not bashed them. I have not shown any signs that I hate them. I know several gay people, and I do say I quite enjoy their company, I do not hate them.

Kajdav, I think I know what our miscommunication is.

 

To me, there's two types of people (on this issue). Firstly there's people that do not approve of gay marriage (and people being gay, for that matter), and secondly there's people who do approve/do not mind. How I see it, if you don't approve, you don't even hang out with them or have them as friends, but if you do approve you could hang out with them and could have them as friends.

 

That's what I've been thinking the whole time, but I realise now that I was wrong.

 

I still don't understand how you can not approve of gays, but still have them as your friends though (but that doesn't matter, I don't need to know).

 

Anyway, my previous point still stands about the for and against still stand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's speculation there Freddie, sorry to say.

It's an educated guess, animals like Elephants have been shown to have remorse over dead family members, whales are also extremely intelligent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This topic drives me nuts sometimes. I was ashamed of Californians for passing proposition 8, here's the way I see this sexual prefference is nobody's business but your own. I'm not gay, but if you are I'm not going to give you krap for it, as far as the legal asspects of marriage everybody should be entitled to it, as far as ceramony the church has and practices the right to refuse anybody for any or no reason at all. Marriage is a protection for both partners in a court of law as far as property rights, custody of children, medical insurance and medical decisions. Also homosexuality being the end of the human race? You're joking right? We'll probably kill ourselves off long before we stop breeding, maybe this is an example of population controal in a world were people pop out 8 kids and such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[....] because, with no action potentials being delivered, the synapses and neurons it's connected to will atrophy [....]

 

 

Being a nerd, and a fan of the brain I have to make a minor correction. That area of the brain will not 'atrophy', it will just disassociate the task it was deprived from and then assume another similar task or something that needs more brainpower. In the instance you spoke of with one eye being covered, the brain will usually expand the area used to process the working eye into the unworking eye. If blind, the brain will usually expand its hearing to compensate. This is why people with sensory disabilities seem to have better remaining senses....they do.

 

 

Also, for you bible thumpers out there, take time to read where and who has said that being gay is a sin. The first mention is in Leviticus. If you have read Leviticus and think it is directly applicable to your life today...well, you are a sad, sad, person. It is also mentioned in the new testament in the letters to Corinth and another book or two, but you surely will never hear Jesus speak of it. Why would Jesus, all loving and all forgiving preach hate upon something GOD HIMSELF MADE. Because that is the case, being gay is not a choice, it is biological (maybe some environmental factors as well). When most people around the age of 5-10 are just begining to be attracted to the opposite sex, gays are are attracted to the same sex(COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT!). Don't believe me? Ask someone who is gay. Don't know anyone who is gay? Ask yourself this: Would you have sex with a guy(/same sex)? No? You're not gay. It requires just as much thought for someone who is gay. What about Yes? You're fag, stop repressing it and go live your life. Still not convinced? I'd ask you to read a science article or two, but it seems you wouldn't believe it at this point.

 

Even if there are environmental factors, which I firmly believe is also true, it is certainly not the person's fault. These are mearly children, and have little to no control or decision as to what happens to them. People, who if I'm not mistaken, will go to heaven if they die, due to being innocent. So, a gay kid goes to heaven because they are innocent? Sounds like god is okay with it. Now if you would suggest that a 5-10 year old kid is going to hell because they are above the age of innocence... I'm not sure you are in the right mind. If you are suggesting that just because they are gay they will go to hell anyway... you are a bad person and an outright shame on your religion. Its people like you who are the reason I don't believe in (your) God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the arguments of the people against gay marriage (have you noticed it's basically just religious people saying that it's against God's will? Where are the atheists against gay marriage?), but there's one problem - you base them on god, which is one of the most vaguest thing we know.

Anyone can claim that they received a message from god, and you can't prove them wrong. Nor can you really know what god (if she/he/them are there) thinks. God might actually like gay people, and we'd never know...

I'm going to respond to that last sentence because the rest of what you said is just drivel. If you read the Bible at all it will tell you most of what God thinks/expects from His followers; any moron with half a brain would realize that. The Bible expressly condemns homos/fags/gays (whatever you want to call them); if you want I'll quote the verse again (although if you look for one of my previous posts you will find it), it is from 1 Corinthians...look it up yourself as well if you don't want to take my word!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×