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Stalin: Good or Bad?


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#21 Dark Wizard

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:11 PM - 0707321

The United States government has stated that a third bomb was going to be dropped on Tokyo. They surrendered first.


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#22 bgorre1013

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:15 PM - 0707322

The United States government has stated that a third bomb was going to be dropped on Tokyo. They surrendered first.

 

That would have been inhuman, but it was necessary to end the war quickly.

General MacArthur was against dropping the bombs because he thought japan was ready to surrender. 


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#23 Dark Wizard

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:21 PM - 0707323

The fact that any were dropped either means that the United States is totally inhumane (im not ruling this out) or that there was a threat. Dropping on Tokyo would have certainly caused unneeded casualties. It would result in more harm then good, which leads me to believe that they did it because of Japan's military threat.


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#24 bgorre1013

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:31 PM - 0707324

Truman did it to end the war, He saw the bomb as another weapon nothing else. And don't forget Japan invaded Manchuria then attack Pearl. They asked for it, US citizens were very isolationist before the attack and also US rebuilt Japan to become an economic power after the war.


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#25 Dark Wizard

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:56 AM - 0707325

I'm not saying that Japan didn't warrant such use. I'm simply saying Truman DID do it to end the war. It would have cost many lives because Japan still had a viable armed forces, therefore, he took the easy way out.


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#26 bgorre1013

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:06 AM - 0707326

Yes it was the easy way out.


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#27 Dark Wizard

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:23 AM - 0707327

You are proving my point that Japan still had an effect military force.


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#28 Mandystalin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:59 AM - 0707328

Not really.

 

Japan could no longer project any power, so was unable to actually attack anybody. However, the only way to actually get Japan to surrender would be to invade Japan itself.

The Japanese plan for such a scenario was rather scary - it basically involved all adult Japanese attacking the invaders with whatever weapon they could (including bamboo spears) - rather like an extreme example of the British Home Guard in 1941. The Japanese had also stockpiled weaponry including chemical and biological agents.

 

The US calculated that Allied casualties during such an invasion would be approximately a million, with Japanese casualties significantly more. They were assuming civilian resistance, because they had faced Japanese civilians before during the island-hopping campaign.

 

When you have the option of millions of deaths vs hundreds of thousands of deaths, which one do you pick?


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#29 bgorre1013

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:08 PM - 0707329

Not really.
 
Japan could no longer project any power, so was unable to actually attack anybody. However, the only way to actually get Japan to surrender would be to invade Japan itself.
The Japanese plan for such a scenario was rather scary - it basically involved all adult Japanese attacking the invaders with whatever weapon they could (including bamboo spears) - rather like an extreme example of the British Home Guard in 1941. The Japanese had also stockpiled weaponry including chemical and biological agents.
 
The US calculated that Allied casualties during such an invasion would be approximately a million, with Japanese casualties significantly more. They were assuming civilian resistance, because they had faced Japanese civilians before during the island-hopping campaign.
 
When you have the option of millions of deaths vs hundreds of thousands of deaths, which one do you pick?


This what i was trying to explain, well said
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#30 Lebensmittelgeschft

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:29 PM - 0707330

The bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to get Japan to surrender as an alternative to invading the Japanese mainland, where they projected at least 1 million US casualties. Ultimately lives were saved by the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. 

 

And ultimately nuclear weapons were what saved the world from WWIII between the Soviet Union and the United States.


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#31 ef9boy88

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:29 AM - 0707331

Interesting conversation here.

As far as Stalin being good or bad it's relative. He did great things for his country, unfortunately he also did horrible things along the way.

As far as who defeated Nazi Germany: I say Hitler did it himself. As the war progressed he started ignoring his scientists and science in general. He started looking for supernatural ways to win the war instead of pushing jet technology as well as stealth technology forward. Yes the first stealth aircraft were built in Nazi Germany, and look suspiciously like ancestors to what we now know as the B2.

Japan: Dropping the bombs was done because we knew that the Japanese would not surrender until there was no other option. We had learned it fighting them on the other islands. Also we dropped them on targets with bot military and psychological importance. The Japanese were training the civilians to fight us as well (sound familiar?) they taught them to strap bombs to their chests and such.


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#32 Mandystalin

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:13 PM - 0707332

Yes the first stealth aircraft were built in Nazi Germany, and look suspiciously like ancestors to what we now know as the B2.

I'm a bit of a plane buff and love the various 'Luftwaffe 1946' what ifs - do you have a website with pics of these stealth planes?


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#33 ef9boy88

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:29 AM - 0707333

Military channel did a show on it. It was pretty interesting to watch. they were built by Horton. I believe it was Horton 18 and Horton 229  

http://thechive.com/...late-28-photos/

Some of these are pictures of the one they built for the show on military channel, they built it from the same materials, and tested it against the radar of the time.


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