Jump to content


Photo

Is There a God?


  • Please log in to reply
95 replies to this topic

#1 Michael Martin

Michael Martin

    Former Military Operations Commander

  • Forum User
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 815 posts
  • Location: Pennsylvania

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Michael Martin
  • Nation Name:Noranea

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 02:09 PM - 07601

After learning more about the universe, it makes me wonder if there really is a god. I can't imagine there not being one. I can't imagine that some massive explosion billions of years ago created the orderly chaos that is our universe without any guidance. Maybe I'm underestimating physics. Maybe not.

When I try to wrap my head around the size of the universe, I'm incapable of grasping the size. The human mind just doesn't operate like that. Maybe we are just cosmic accidents. Maybe we're not even all that special in the universal scheme of things. With the size of the universe, there HAS to be intelligent life on other planets. Statistically, there is just no way we're the only ones with the right mix of atmosphere, distance from the sun, and chemicals, which all converged to create life as we know it, in the hundreds of billions of planets that make up the Milky Way galaxy. Keep in mind that there are millions (if not billions) of other galaxies as well, and scientists believe the universe is still expanding. That kind of gives you an idea of what I'm talking about. There's just no way this all happened by accident.
  • 0

#2 Lailander

Lailander

    Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Location: Finland

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Lailander the Lame
  • Nation Name:Efladim

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 06:38 PM - 07602

Is there a God as the Christians tell us? No.
Is there a God as any other religion tells us? No, not really.
Is there a possibility that some superior being exists? Yes, there is. But most likely that superior being will be a member of another race. Or the whole race, it doesn't have to be just one.

Were we created by someone? It doesn't matter. Your life is what you make it.

Sums up what I think.
  • 0

#3 Kochers

Kochers

    Always here

  • Chief Justice
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,811 posts
  • IRC Nick:Kochers[NADC]

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Coker
  • Nation Name:Kochers

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:16 PM - 07603

Is there a God as the Christians tell us? No.
Is there a God as any other religion tells us? No, not really.

Is there a possibility that some superior being exists? Yes, there is. But most likely that superior being will be a member of another race. Or the whole race, it doesn't have to be just one.

Were we created by someone? It doesn't matter. Your life is what you make it.

Sums up what I think.

I find it interesting that you differentiate between Christians and "any other religion". You do realize that Islam and Judaism and closely related to Christianity, right?

Also, what do you mean by "most likely"?

Is there a God? Yep. He created the universe, you, me, and even unappreciative Lail. And he loves us all very much.
  • 0

#4 Lailander

Lailander

    Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Location: Finland

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Lailander the Lame
  • Nation Name:Efladim

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:22 PM - 07604

I find it interesting that you differentiate between Christians and "any other religion". You do realize that Islam and Judaism and closely related to Christianity, right?

Also, what do you mean by "most likely"?

Is there a God? Yep. He created the universe, you, me, and even unappreciative Lail. And he loves us all very much.


Well, I was going to just write "religions", but since most of the religious folk here are Christians, I decided to separate it. No difference, though. Religions, all the same. Religions all tell us that "Oh, God is like this and that" like they'd somehow know that. Bullcrap, I say. We cannot know, understand or define God if there is one/any.


Most likely, it means that I am not 100% certain, but...well, most likely, isn't it clear what it means?

And no thank you, you might've been created by your God, but not me. I'd rather not have you force things like that on me, if you might.
  • 0

#5 Kochers

Kochers

    Always here

  • Chief Justice
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,811 posts
  • IRC Nick:Kochers[NADC]

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Coker
  • Nation Name:Kochers

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:41 PM - 07605

Well, I was going to just write "religions", but since most of the religious folk here are Christians, I decided to separate it. No difference, though. Religions, all the same. Religions all tell us that "Oh, God is like this and that" like they'd somehow know that. Bullcrap, I say. We cannot know, understand or define God if there is one/any.


Most likely, it means that I am not 100% certain, but...well, most likely, isn't it clear what it means?

And no thank you, you might've been created by your God, but not me. I'd rather not have you force things like that on me, if you might.

I'm not forcing anything on you Lail. I am simply stating fact. If you'd like I can even cite the source I got that information from (Its The Bible ;))
  • 0

#6 FireRuker

FireRuker

    Military Adviser

  • Forum User
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:FireRuker
  • Nation Name:Greater Lanreath

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:41 PM - 07606

'Just because you believe something doesn't make it true.'

That thought took me a while to get my head round. Just because you or someone else for that matter believes something doesn't mean that it exists. I'm not saying that I could change that belief by saying anything here because even something which contradicts what someone believes usually helps solidify that person's belief. For example, the Bible teaches that God is benevolent yet people work it in to their belief system that there is a reason for suffering in the world such as the Original Sin which, in turn, makes another thing in the Bible seem even more true and even more believable.

I'm not going to say whether or not there is a God but I'm just saying that whether or not you believe that there is one or many gods, for that matter, you may be incorrect, no matter how sure you are of it.
  • 0

#7 Kochers

Kochers

    Always here

  • Chief Justice
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,811 posts
  • IRC Nick:Kochers[NADC]

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Coker
  • Nation Name:Kochers

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:44 PM - 07607

'Just because you believe something doesn't make it true.'

That thought took me a while to get my head round. Just because you or someone else for that matter believes something doesn't mean that it exists. I'm not saying that I could change that belief by saying anything here because even something which contradicts what someone believes usually helps solidify that person's belief. For example, the Bible teaches that God is benevolent yet people work it in to their belief system that there is a reason for suffering in the world such as the Original Sin which, in turn, makes another thing in the Bible seem even more true and even more believable.

I'm not going to say whether or not there is a God but I'm just saying that whether or not you believe that there is one or many gods, for that matter, you may be incorrect, no matter how sure you are of it.

That is possible, however, I am confident (as I'm sure you were expecting ;)) that there is a God, the one I worship, the Creator of the Universe. If you'd like I could provide some "secular" reasons as to why.
  • 0

#8 FireRuker

FireRuker

    Military Adviser

  • Forum User
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:FireRuker
  • Nation Name:Greater Lanreath

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 07:54 PM - 07608

Whether I believe in God or not is neither here no there. There is a chance that my belief is wrong and a chance that my belief is right, it's not necessarily true.

However what I do think, is that religion was built up over the human fear of death. Over the millenia people have needed to think that there is a higher power that will help them avoid famine an other natural disasters. Over time intelligent people saw it as a way of conreciting poetry people (heaven/hell) and manipulated people into giving them money and folloing their orders.
  • 0

#9 Lailander

Lailander

    Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Location: Finland

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Lailander the Lame
  • Nation Name:Efladim

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 09:48 PM - 07609

I'm not forcing anything on you Lail. I am simply stating fact. If you'd like I can even cite the source I got that information from (Its The Bible ;) )


As much as I could quote from any other book myself, too. Just because you can read it on a book doesn't mean it's true.
Shouldn't go calling things that come from the bible facts, by the way. Not too much facts in that book, I can tell you.

Anyway, I don't think this is the real topic of this discussion. To me, all this stuff about God just don't really make any sense at all, and some of the stuff against God make way much more sense.
  • 0

#10 Kochers

Kochers

    Always here

  • Chief Justice
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,811 posts
  • IRC Nick:Kochers[NADC]

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Coker
  • Nation Name:Kochers

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:04 PM - 076010

As much as I could quote from any other book myself, too. Just because you can read it on a book doesn't mean it's true.
Shouldn't go calling things that come from the bible facts, by the way. Not too much facts in that book, I can tell you.

Anyway, I don't think this is the real topic of this discussion. To me, all this stuff about God just don't really make any sense at all, and some of the stuff against God make way much more sense.

Except this book is completely factual Lail. You see, the God of the Universe, the Alpha and the Omega, inspired the writers of The Bible and told them what to write. Seeing as he is omnipotent, omniscient, etc. and he wasn't lying (since he told us he doesn't lie) I think its pretty acurate. But if you don't believe me I invite you to read it and decide for yourself. You never know, you might find a moral you agree with and apply it as an atheist.

Oh, what do you think Lail of what they are calling "Atheism 3.0"? Your thoughts on it would be very interesting...
  • 0

#11 TankKiller

TankKiller

    Where are you?!

  • Forum Admin
  • 3,032 posts
  • IRC Nick:ayleid
  • Location: The Alps

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:TankKiller
  • Nation Name:Kortaenica

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:31 PM - 076011

To you, Kochers, the Bible is completely factual. To Lailander, it's as factual as one of Terry Pratchet's stories. If he doesn't believe in God, then there is pretty much no way of ever convincing him that it's factual.
You have to believe in God before you can believe the Bible. Perhaps whilst reading the Bible you come to believe in God, and then believe it, but I don't think it can work the other way around. (Very fine line of distinction between the two...)

That said, I do believe in God. To give reasons for this based upon the Bible would be meaningless to someone who doesn't believe in it (as I said above). My main reason for believing in God is personal experience, though, not the Bible. That, too, is pretty meaningless to someone else.
  • 0

#12 FireRuker

FireRuker

    Military Adviser

  • Forum User
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:FireRuker
  • Nation Name:Greater Lanreath

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:06 PM - 076012

The Bible has way too many contradictions to be factual. Also some things in there are not meant to be facts but rather stories from which we get moral messages. Over the centuries scholars have 'updated' it so it fits with the view that they want to portray. You believe that Jesus was the son of God. You call this a fact. Both the Torah and the Qu'ran disagree so both Jews and Muslims would disagree with this 'fact' despite agreeing with you about many of the stories in the Old Testament. Essentially it is the same God that these religions follow, and their holy books written by messengers from that God, yet the messages differ slightly. How can you be sure that the Bible is fact and not these other texts written by God?
  • 0

#13 Emperor of Babanga

Emperor of Babanga

    All Hail The Great EoB

  • NADC Assembly
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,341 posts

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Emperor of Babanga
  • Nation Name:Empire of Babanga

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:35 PM - 076013

christians, catholics, muslims and jews all believe in the same god. the god of abraham. they just believe in him in a different way. how could they ALL be the one and only god, the god of abraham, yet different? simple answer, they are not.
when the word of god spread throughout the ancient world, it was spread before writing. it was through story telling. as it spread to different regions with different existing pagan beliefs, the stories changed slightly as they were told. so people could relate to the stories.
in the same way as language has spread and changed slightly. brits, americans and aussies all speak english but have different accents, in the same way christians, jews and muslims all believe in the same god but in a different way.

so when christians say "my god is real, yours isnt" or "the christian god is my god" they are talking crap. their god is the same god as their neighbour muhammed's. the christians actually worship allah. but they just call him a different name because of their "religious accent".
the christian bible, jewish bible and the koran all include the story of abraham, and all say that the god who talked to abraham is their god. (also an interesting fact. the koran also has the story of jesus and claim him as a prophet of allah)


and yes, there is a god. if there wasnt then how do you explain irony? irony is gods humour. he comes up with ironic stunts to amuse himself that even hollywood script writers couldnt think up.
  • 0

#14 Michael Martin

Michael Martin

    Former Military Operations Commander

  • Forum User
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 815 posts
  • Location: Pennsylvania

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Michael Martin
  • Nation Name:Noranea

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:33 AM - 076014

I highly doubt that God is like anything we think it is. If God exists, it is probably something we are incapable of comprehending. It's highly unlikely that the stuff written in the Bible is factual.
  • 0

#15 Rajin

Rajin

    Wat?

  • Forum User
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Location: Baton Rouge, LA

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Rajin
  • Nation Name:Floyd

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 23 October 2009 - 05:29 AM - 076015

I don't believe in a religous god. However, I believe in a vague idea that a few people might call God.
Order, Law, etc. You could call it that, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be worshiped although it is awe inspiring.

Religous people all have the same reason for believing in a God, but all disagree on who it is and even bother to say everyone else is wrong.

If you claim you're right for the same reasons you use to claim other people are wrong...well your religion is B.S.
  • 0

#16 Lailander

Lailander

    Member

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,874 posts
  • Location: Finland

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Lailander the Lame
  • Nation Name:Efladim

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:40 PM - 076016

Except this book is completely factual Lail. You see, the God of the Universe, the Alpha and the Omega, inspired the writers of The Bible and told them what to write. Seeing as he is omnipotent, omniscient, etc. and he wasn't lying (since he told us he doesn't lie) I think its pretty acurate. But if you don't believe me I invite you to read it and decide for yourself. You never know, you might find a moral you agree with and apply it as an atheist.

Oh, what do you think Lail of what they are calling "Atheism 3.0"? Your thoughts on it would be very interesting...


Why am I suddenly labeled as an atheist? :P
Is it either religious or atheist?

Anyway, the book can not really be proven right nor wrong, so believe, but don't call it a fact. And I have read it through a couple of times, and scrolled through some parts some more, but I did not really find anything new in there. I mean, sure there's some good stuff in there, killing and lying and stealing are generally wrong, but I already knew those. You know, you can have morals without God or the Bible or a religion to follow.

Anyway, "Atheism 3.0"...interesting. I have never heard of that before, but I have to say, to some degree I can agree with it.
On individual level, religion can be a good thing. I don't tell people what to believe and what not to. So, religion itself and believing are not bad things.

But, organized religion and churches, now those things are COMPLETELY different that religion, and these institutions are the ones I have beef with. Because most of them, first of all, tell people that instead of believing, they KNOW. They say that this is the TRUTH, while it's just a matter of believing or not, where there is no absolute truth at all. Also, most organized religions have this...I don't really understand it, this urge to tell other people how they should live their lives. People who have NO connections to them. I don't care how you live your life or how you tell people IN your religious group to live, but when you start commanding other people, that's when it's not alright anymore.

So, I don't care what you believe in, it's not my business, but I think religions would be better if they added one more commandment; "Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself".
  • 0

#17 Emperor of Babanga

Emperor of Babanga

    All Hail The Great EoB

  • NADC Assembly
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,341 posts

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Emperor of Babanga
  • Nation Name:Empire of Babanga

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 24 October 2009 - 12:17 AM - 076017

i couldnt agree more lail.
  • 0

#18 Augustus

Augustus

    Newbie

  • Forum User
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Location: USA

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Caeser Augustus
  • Nation Name:Romanorum

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 24 October 2009 - 01:34 AM - 076018

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Thats all im am going to say -_-

Image removed - Hurhur, let's keep this civil.
  • 0

#19 Kajdav

Kajdav

    Resident Devil's Advocate

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,717 posts
  • Location: Probably on IRC

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:Kajdav
  • Nation Name:Kajdav

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 24 October 2009 - 04:59 AM - 076019

God exists, but I'm not going to force anybody to believe me. You have to find out for yourself, through reading the bible, the Book of Mormon, and prayer. And not just doing these things to prove God doesn't exist, but doing them earnestly, God will let you know that he exists.


Some kinda cool things I always think about that I think come from God: Music, art, fashion, etc. There is no reason in nature that I can find that we (humans) would have any need of music (or even be able to understand music out of simple noises), art, fashion etc. I believe God gave them to us to... I don't know, make man more complex? To add depth to our lives? Something like that, but it's just something I like to think about.
  • 0

#20 ef9boy88

ef9boy88

    Newbie

  • Former Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 355 posts

  • NDT Link:[ Link ]

  • Nation Link:[ Link ]
  • Nation Ruler:ef9boy88
  • Nation Name:cursed quilts

  • Resource One:
  • Resource Two:

Posted 24 October 2009 - 05:10 AM - 076020

I believe that there is a god. Now here's the thing with belief, each person believes different things, and swears by what they believe. The problems come in when people start attempting to force another to believe as they do, even to the point where people start comitting Genocide (which I have never heard in church.) Or you get neighbors in perpetual war (Israelis and plestinians.)becuase they're both "right" about their holy land being in the same place.
  • 0