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This is so stupid...

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/commonwealthgames/10995961/Commonwealth-Games-Scottie-dogs-disrespectful-to-Muslims.html

 

I can't believe the stupid things that foreign countries whine about.

 

Who in their right mind could hate dogs?

 

In this context, shouldn't they respect that this event was attempting to display Scottish culture? so shouldn't they have at least been understanding?

 

I highly doubt the Scottish organisers would ever do anything to even hint at insulting another country's religion so I can't believe the malaysian govt's overreaction.

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Well in Islam, dogs are considered "unclean" and event happened during Ramadan. I can understand that. While the organizers didn't intend to offend the Muslims, I think they should at least try to consider this possibility.

 

Though I personally think that the outrage is indeed unnecessary. 

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They demand people respect them all the time but give no respect back whatsoever, so in the danger of offending someone who is sensitive here, they can STFU and get over it. This kinda whining infuriates me, if you don't like how organizers set up don't go I think that entrance was fantastic so did everyone else. We should hold those complaining people down and let puppies crawl all over them.

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

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People are too fucking sensitive these days. When I was in Iraq we were expected to tone down our presence during Muslim holidays. The thing is that the insurgency didn't seem to respect their own holidays. Yeah they think dogs are filthy yet they'll stick an IED in a dead ones guts during their shitty ass holidays in order to kill Marines.

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

Hahaha! I love South Park!

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

 

That logic isn't going to get you very far in life. Just going to throw that out there. People take lots of different things seriously, whether that be their religious or political beliefs, their obsession with sports, television, what have you. Disregarding that out of hand is likely to cause problems at some point.

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People think of themselves only all the time; this kind of statement is hardly surprising or uncommon these days.Years back Muslims were angered by the Mohammed caricatures, and so they didn't respect the Nordic freedom of the press. In some European countries it is still forbidden to deny the Holocaust, so the paranoia isn't limited to religion or certain continents. These are just some examples of many. Even here in CN it is in some people's mind all right to discriminate someone else's ideological belief as long as you state it to be offensive to yourself. Narrow-mindedness and the Internet are not healthy for everyone.

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

 

That logic isn't going to get you very far in life. Just going to throw that out there. People take lots of different things seriously, whether that be their religious or political beliefs, their obsession with sports, television, what have you. Disregarding that out of hand is likely to cause problems at some point.

 

 

It's funny you mention religious law and practice in the same sentence as logic. Generally, the flying spaghetti monster has no more or less importance than Allah in terms of proof, or faith. So who's to say that my faith's mandate that all people must own a doggie isn't just as valid. The point here is to illustrate the insanity and pointlessness of organized religion as a whole. I think that goes pretty far in my book.

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

 

That logic isn't going to get you very far in life. Just going to throw that out there. People take lots of different things seriously, whether that be their religious or political beliefs, their obsession with sports, television, what have you. Disregarding that out of hand is likely to cause problems at some point.

 

It's funny you mention religious law and practice in the same sentence as logic. Generally, the flying spaghetti monster has no more or less importance than Allah in terms of proof, or faith. So who's to say that my faith's mandate that all people must own a doggie isn't just as valid. The point here is to illustrate the insanity and pointlessness of organized religion as a whole. I think that goes pretty far in my book.

 

Maybe but I think the point Kochers was trying to make is that, even if you reject (a particular) religious belief, you can't just ignore those who do have religious views or their arguments, particularly since a significant proportion of the world does hold religious beliefs and the question of whether there is a supernatural being/creator does not seemed to be settled by any means. Engagement and argument, no matter how infuriating and futile it may seem, are still necessary.

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malaysia always overreaction anything, that's why my country "indonesia" always have a cold war with them...

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There's no way to reason with the unreasonable.

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Oh there is those methods are either at best frowned upon or worse illegal...

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

 

That logic isn't going to get you very far in life. Just going to throw that out there. People take lots of different things seriously, whether that be their religious or political beliefs, their obsession with sports, television, what have you. Disregarding that out of hand is likely to cause problems at some point.

 

It's funny you mention religious law and practice in the same sentence as logic. Generally, the flying spaghetti monster has no more or less importance than Allah in terms of proof, or faith. So who's to say that my faith's mandate that all people must own a doggie isn't just as valid. The point here is to illustrate the insanity and pointlessness of organized religion as a whole. I think that goes pretty far in my book.

 

Maybe but I think the point Kochers was trying to make is that, even if you reject (a particular) religious belief, you can't just ignore those who do have religious views or their arguments, particularly since a significant proportion of the world does hold religious beliefs and the question of whether there is a supernatural being/creator does not seemed to be settled by any means. Engagement and argument, no matter how infuriating and futile it may seem, are still necessary.

 

 

Right, but there should be a line where you refuse to cross when it comes to living your life, and the social traditions of the majority of your population. If I live in say, the United States, this wouldn't be a problem. It's only a problem because the sensitivity to these sorts of issues is played up by folks who are of your mindset. That we must all respect and observe the religious sensitivities of other faiths. The only problem with that, is that because Islam is not very well known to a lot of western cultures, you'll always have this problem. So my question would be: why do we, as westerners, have to bend over backwards to respect other faiths in our own lands, when others do nothing to respect ours? They stone Christians, and put to death anyone seeking to preach, teach or spread Christian theology. Sounds to me like the only one following this rule of tolerance, is Europe and the West. 

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Man, there's an awful lot of anger and outrage about this in this thread.

 

Yes, maybe the Malaysian government's reaction was a little strong, but the Commonwealth Games are intended to promote cross-cultural exchanges and understanding, and not understanding that some Muslims may find dogs to be offensive runs contrary to this intention.

If this were the Malaysian government complaining about Scots having dogs as pets, then yes, I'd be partaking in your rage. But the express purpose of these games are to promote "goodwill and good understanding"1 between the participating nations, so the lack of understanding exhibited here is indeed at the very least an oversight.

 

Xavier: You speak of "others do[ing] nothing to respect our [faiths]", but we're talking about Malaysia here. This is a country with a significant Christian population, and a country with good interfaith relations where Christmas, Chinese New Year, and Deepavali have been declared national holidays alongside Islamic holidays.2

 

References:
[1] The Commonwealth Games. BBC h2g2. [Online] http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A2020447 (Retrieved 4th August 2014)

[2] Windows on Asia: Malaysia - Religion. Michigan State University. [Online] http://asia.isp.msu.edu/wbwoa/southeast_asia/malaysia/religion.htm (Retrieved 4th August 2014)

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You're mistaking rage for general distaste for organized faiths. I still think it's flat out silly to be complaining about dogs when your country has basic social and economic issues that need undertaking. I hope no one is offended by my posts. I really do respect people's personal faiths and I have my own. If I have, I am truly sorry for that.

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If their argument for outrage is religious based, then ignore it. The flying spaghetti monster loves doggies.

 

That logic isn't going to get you very far in life. Just going to throw that out there. People take lots of different things seriously, whether that be their religious or political beliefs, their obsession with sports, television, what have you. Disregarding that out of hand is likely to cause problems at some point.

 

It's funny you mention religious law and practice in the same sentence as logic. Generally, the flying spaghetti monster has no more or less importance than Allah in terms of proof, or faith. So who's to say that my faith's mandate that all people must own a doggie isn't just as valid. The point here is to illustrate the insanity and pointlessness of organized religion as a whole. I think that goes pretty far in my book.

 

Maybe but I think the point Kochers was trying to make is that, even if you reject (a particular) religious belief, you can't just ignore those who do have religious views or their arguments, particularly since a significant proportion of the world does hold religious beliefs and the question of whether there is a supernatural being/creator does not seemed to be settled by any means. Engagement and argument, no matter how infuriating and futile it may seem, are still necessary.

 

 

Right, but there should be a line where you refuse to cross when it comes to living your life, and the social traditions of the majority of your population. If I live in say, the United States, this wouldn't be a problem. It's only a problem because the sensitivity to these sorts of issues is played up by folks who are of your mindset. That we must all respect and observe the religious sensitivities of other faiths. The only problem with that, is that because Islam is not very well known to a lot of western cultures, you'll always have this problem. So my question would be: why do we, as westerners, have to bend over backwards to respect other faiths in our own lands, when others do nothing to respect ours? They stone Christians, and put to death anyone seeking to preach, teach or spread Christian theology. Sounds to me like the only one following this rule of tolerance, is Europe and the West.

 

With all due respect, I think you've misunderstood what I've said. Nowhere did I say that "we must all respect and observe the religious sensitivities of other faiths" or, at least, in the sense that you are referring to. I said you must engage these people in dialogue and not just dismiss them out of hand, simply because their issues arise from religious beliefs. I don't think there is ever going to be a situation where someone isn't offended by something. But, at the same time, I don't see how you can improve the situation by ignoring them and refusing to engage them in dialogue and discussion, particularly in a world where a significant proportion of the world is religious and the questions of religion have not been put to rest. Refusing to engage is just going to lead to an entrenchment of the "us vs them" attitude (which it seems you have) and I really can't see that making things better.

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There's no way to reason with the unreasonable.

Probably but I'm not really concerned about the extremist elements. It's most likely you'll never be able to convince them. It's the moderates whom I'm more concerned about convincing.

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So, you're believe that no dialogue in terms of what sorts of things are acceptable and what isn't, doesn't take place? If that's the case, then I would agree, these things need to take place. I do believe in dialogue, however it has been my observation that Islam as a faith, is less tolerant of western ideals of satire, comedy, women's rights and other social and cultural items that we take for granted. I don't think dialogue can really solve the fundamental differences that exist there. However I think I was mistaken that taking the "us vs. them" attitude you referenced. I am naturally skeptical of most organized doctrine. It's a bad habit.

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Oh there is those methods are either at best frowned upon or worse illegal...

Hahaha! Right on.

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The first questions that sprang to my mind -

 

Malaysia's State religion is Islam, but only 60% of the population are Muslims (in 2010, anyway). Was the guy who had to carry the dog actually a Muslim? If he was, why didn't he object? How many of the athletes led out by the dog were Muslims, and did any of them object? 

 

Yes, I'd agree that this is the kind of issue that could be avoided*, but then there does come a point where you can't have any 'traditional' Scottish stuff on show - Shortbread is offensive to vegans, and those who are Gluten-intolerant. Tartan is offensive to the Colour-blind. Thistles are offensive to gardeners. and so on... :D

 

 

* I work in a Uni, and generally at Registration we offer sweets to the students who are standing in line waiting. One year Registration and Ramadan coincided, and after a few embarrassing encounters (we get a LOT of Muslin students) the decision was taken to stop giving out sweets. Nobody actually complained, and the Muslims who were offered sweets were generally good natured about it as it was obviously an honest mistake rather than a deliberate attempt to be mean (many took a sweet to eat after sunset). The next year, our registration team checked if the dates overlapped (they did) and we had no sweets at all. The year after, no overlap, sweets all round.

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